Danielle Ponder’s Incredible Story, From Public Defender To Superstar

L.A,’s famed Troubadour is a place where legends are born. Back in August of 1970 Elton John made his U.S. debut there in a series of shows that he has credited with launching his career Stateside when Neil Diamond introduced him, opening night, and L.A. Times pop music critic Robert Hilburn wrote a glowing review of the show.

In the 50-plus years since the venue has hosted too many of the biggest names in music to name, from Billie Eilish to the amazing Carole King and James Taylor stand in 2007 to celebrate 50 years of the Troubadour.

So, given the tremendous history of the club, it takes a lot to stand on that stage and distinguish yourself among all of the greats that have triumphed there. But Danielle Ponder did just that at a sold-out show May 24, delivering one of the best performances ever to grace that hallowed stage.

Ponder has one of music’s great stories. A public defender in Rochester, NY for nearly a decade, she quit her job five days before her fortieth birthday to pursue music full time. And here she was, a year plus later, standing on a stage of titans dazzling the L.A. audience who thanked her with ovation after ovation.

Fellow Rochester native Sage Bava and I spoke with Ponder about that Troubadour show and her equally impressive stint at BottleRock a few days later, songwriting, how her years of law helped prepare her for music and much more. Meet Danielle Ponder, a superstar in every respect.

Sage Bava: Steve and I both agreed your version of Radiohead’s »Creep, » at the Troubadour, was one of the best things that we’ll ever see in this lifetime, just what you did with that song, I had chills the whole time.

Danielle Ponder: Thank you so much. I was so nervous about that show, but in the end, I was very happy about how it went.

Steve Baltin: It’s interesting though that you say that you were nervous. I loved what you had to say. It was so inspirational on so many levels.

Ponder: Yeah, I think I was nervous just because it was the Troubadour and I knew there was a lot of people coming, and my managers were making me very aware of who was in the room. And so I think I was just more like wanted to make sure it was a great show. But I usually don’t get nervous. I’m so used to performing and being on stage. I’ve been doing it for 20 years. It’s become just second nature for me. But that show just felt like a moment. A moment that you really want to deliver on.

Baltin: And did that carry over to BottleRock then? We were walking up Saturday, and we could hear you through downtown Napa, and your voice was just resonating through the whole city in this beautiful way. And people were just stopping and staring like, « Wait, what is that? »

Ponder: Wow, BottleRock, I was very relaxed, but my throat had been bothering me and so I was just concerned about how that was going to show up. But I also didn’t know how many people were going to be there because we had an early set. So, though sometimes you go to big festivals, in the early sets, people are just still getting there. But it was a decent crowd. And it was really great.

Bava: I was thinking about the similarities between working as a musician and a lawyer, and when you’re prepping for a show. I wonder how much crossover there is because as a speaker, you’re so vibrant in both. Do you find that there’s quite a lot of similarities when you’re preparing to be this force in different ways?

Ponder: I think both being a lawyer and being a musician require an ability to connect with people. And I think that’s my talent, is to pull people in, whether it’s emotionally or spiritually or whatever. Just being able to connect and to be able to tell a story in a way that really elicits empathy from the listener. And obviously as a public defender, you do that every day. Everyday you’re telling someone’s story, right? And you’re expanding beyond the black and white, where the district attorney might be like, « Well, he has 50 petty larcenies on his record. » Your job is to dig deeper and to let the court know what your client’s struggles are, to give them a three-dimensional view of who they are. So it’s definitely a storytelling job. It’s a job that requires creativity and a job that requires you to ask yourself, « How do I get people to understand? » And I think that’s what I’m doing everyday on the stage — trying to get people to understand either where I’m coming from or the human condition. To put some descriptors on it to help us understand what the f**k we’re doing.

Bava: And in writing these songs, what do you find was the core inspiration in the process of writing? Do you have the idea first or is it this kind of channeling exercise where you allow the writing to happen and then you discover what it’s about after?

Ponder: For me, it always starts with the music. And then I will just get on and start working on the melody. And usually I’m just kind of doing gibberish, saying whatever. And then I go back and there are some lines that I’ll actually keep. And that’s what I kind of love about my creative process. It almost feels like a download from something higher. The song, and there’s a song I wrote called « Fray, » where I, in my gibberish just said, « I live on the distance. » And so then I had to figure out what does that mean? Why did that come to me? What is this about? And from there, I crafted the songs, about struggling with anxiety, and relationships. And that’s kind of like the process for me. The lyrics are the last thing. Usually it’s the music and the melody first.

Bava: And is that the song that you feel brings you closest to the beyond?

Ponder: It brings me closer to myself. But I think « Roll the Credits » is the song that brings me closer to like a higher hour or a more divine world I would say.

Bava: What about by someone else?

Ponder: I think « The Light, » by Nick Hakim is always a good meditation song for me. Alice Coltrane, anything by her, Nina Simone, « Everything Must Change. » Bob Marley, « Time Will Tell, » those are just the songs that can transport me.

Bava: I’m so fascinated by how songs have this ability to connect us to self. And often how songs that you write over time become something completely new to yourself. Is there a song that you feel like most represents that as far as having written it and then years or months later realizing what it’s about?

Ponder: Maybe « The Only Way Out » because I wrote the hook like almost 20 years ago. I was 21 years old. And that’s crazy. But the lyrics I wrote at 21 do have a bigger meaning. At 21 I probably didn’t have the complexities or the experience to really understand the complexities behind the statement. Sometimes the broken heart is the only way out. I just knew I was sad and this guy shouldn’t have dumped me but when I finished the song, I was able to expand because I’ve had more lived experiences. Right. And so when I say, you got to go through it to get through it, that’s a line that a 41-year-old woman wrote because she knows, yeah, your heart is gonna get broken, but the only way through it is to just keep pushing forward. So yeah, I love that song because it’s a hybrid of my 21-year-old self, my 24-year-old self and my 41-year-old self.

Baltin: I feel like as people get older, they get more comfortable just being themselves. So are you surprised by the honesty in some of the earlier songs?

Ponder: I had a long journey of songwriting. When I first started writing songs, everything was very political. And I felt like there was no need to write about love or romance, that was just silly stuff compared to the things that are going on everyday in society. And then Nina Simone is a big inspiration and she kind of gave me permission to expand to talk about love. That you could do both. But even then, all of my songs had to have this upbeat, encouraging message. It had to resolve with, « But I love myself, I’ll be happy. » And I was doing more like upbeat music as well. So to be honest, I was really afraid when I put this album out because I knew it didn’t have resolution in some places and I knew that I was talking about s**t that’s kind of sad. There’s a lot of sad s**t on the album. And everybody knows me from being more inspiring, encouraging, more like Lizzo music. And what I’m learning is that being honest about problems can also be inspiring. Being vulnerable can be inspiring and encouraging because it’s not the type of inspiration that says, « You’re the best, you’re the greatest. You can do it. » It’s the type of inspiration that says, « We all go through things. I’m struggling with it as well. » And that type of inspiration helps you feel less alone. And in some way, a convoluted way it does get you to the place of I can do this. Danielle is on stage talking about her anxiety, and she’s surviving it, so it’s a survival testimony. It is always a beautiful way to encourage people who are struggling to keep pushing forward. And I think that’s what I see in this album.

Baltin: Have you been surprised by how much people related to your honesty while you’re talking about your anxiety?

Ponder: Yeah, I am. So many people come up to me and share their struggles with relationships, with anxiety, with feeling not good enough, with being older and trying to make a career change. It’s unbelievable how much we really have in common. We are tribal by nature and we have created a bunch of things to divide us. But at our basic levels, we are all searching for love and validation and we all struggle in many of the same ways when we don’t have that or feel we don’t have that. So it’s been remarkable the type of messages that I get, what people share with me, yeah, that shocks me. I didn’t think this album would open up the heart so much for people. So it’s been nice to see.

Baltin: Has there been one song that you’ve gotten the most response to that’s surprised you?

Ponder: Funny enough, I would say it’s « Creep, » because of what we do at the end. We kind of riff into this new different song, with lyrics that I’ve added and really those lyrics, I never wrote them down. It was just one show we were doing « Creep » and at the end. I just went there. And I think it’s something about how beautiful that song was written, and I think what I do at the end is just expand on the meaning of it. And I really love direct songwriting. I think for Black culture, it’s been very important to have direct songwriting, because we have to use our songs to actually communicate for survival purposes. So I would say it’s less abstract. And it’s just « I know you feel alone and I feel alone too, period. » And I think taking that Radiohead song and turning it into a direct confrontation with the feeling of irrelevance or not quite sure what your purpose is, it is really impactful for the audience.

Baltin: Going back to what Sage was asking you about the channeling, when you look back on that first time you did « Creep, » do you know where those improvised lyrics came from?

Ponder: I think at that time I had quit my job, but we were in the pandemic and the words, « I don’t belong here or do I belong here, » is what I took and ran with. I think it just came from being in the pandemic, having left my job as a lawyer for the first time and not really sure what the f**k was about to happen or what was going on. So I think that song really came from that space of am I doing the right thing?

Bava: I love hearing you talk about connecting to yourself over the years. I’m curious what you would tell Danielle from that time of your life, if there’s any words that you would tell her or you would just let it be and let life ride like it has.

Ponder: It’s hard for me to tell her, don’t chase these men because men have given me really good songs. I don’t know if I could tell her anything different, because I think what I’ve created is based on my experiences. And so I wouldn’t alter anything in my past because where I am is exactly where I’m supposed to be. And it’s allowed me to write songs that really resonate with people. And for sure I could tell her, you’re beautiful, you’re confident, but I had to go through all the things that I went through. And I was telling someone this yesterday, I think what allows my music to be relatable is of someone who’s had 41 years of life. And so I can write about a six-year relationship that went south and you’re afraid to be single again. A 19-year-old can’t. So I just think that there’s a perspective from having a lived experience and I think all of my experiences have led me here.

Baltin: Who would be the dream collaborator at this point? Just for fun?

Ponder: I just provided someone a list of my dream collaborators. There’s a lot, Lauryn Hill, Roger Waters. But I have to say, who would I like to see myself on stage with right now? It’s probably Gladys Knight. I love her voice and I think we would do a killer collab together.

Baltin: What song would you do with her?

Ponder: Either « Neither One Of Us (Wants To Be The First To Say Goodbye) » or « Midnight Train to Georgia. »

Baltin: Is there a song that for you that you have always wanted to cover that you haven’t tackled yet, or the one that’s been hardest for you to do to at this point?

Ponder: I think after that experience with Whitney Houston, I’ve stayed away from her catalog [laughter]. Singing a Whitney Houston song, I never went back. I just was like, « Uh, it’s too much. » I would say Joni Mitchell is also very difficult to cover. Her melodies are really complex and it’s hard to follow, and if you think about paint by numbers, they have the ones for the little kids where it’s just like six numbers and then a Joni Mitchell song is 80 f**king numbers. [laughter] And it’s really smart songwriting and her melodies are very complex. So I have decided Joni Mitchell and Whitney Houston, I’ll leave them alone. [laughter]

Bava: Your sound is so distinctive. Do you feel like you’ve locked into what that truth is in the aspect of the sound?

Ponder: I really love my sound, but I also think there’s farther to go. I don’t think I’ve completely nailed it to be honest. No one would know that but me but I have other things that I want to add to the sound and I’m really ready to kind of take it to a next level. I think it will still always be me at its core, but I think we always have to improve upon our designs.